Episode 271
Saying No Without Guilt: Boundaries That Work
Struggling to say no without feeling guilty? You're not alone. In this honest conversation about setting boundaries, Shannon and Janine share why "no" really is a complete sentence—even when it doesn't feel like it.
Fresh from juggling surgery prep, family events, and a three-day conference, Shannon opens up about the real challenge of saying no to things you actually want to do. Janine shares her decades-old wisdom from Miss Manners that changed how she sets boundaries forever.
In this episode about saying no and setting boundaries, you'll discover:
- Why over-explaining actually weakens your no (and invites people to argue)
- The "hell yes or no" test that makes decisions crystal clear
- Practical scripts for declining work requests, social invitations, and volunteer commitments
- How to recognize when you're asking too much of yourself
- The relief test that confirms you made the right choice
- Why saying no to good opportunities creates space for great ones (or just rest!)
If you've ever said yes when you meant no, felt guilty about protecting your time, or struggled with people-pleasing perfectionism, this episode is your permission slip to start setting boundaries that actually work.
What We Talk About:
[00:43] Shannon's Complicated Season: When Everything Hits at Once Shannon shares what's been making life complicated: relaunching the podcast, preparing for shoulder surgery in a week, attending her nephew's wedding, visiting her 96-year-old aunt, and attending a conference—all while trying to get everything done before surgery day.
[02:15] The "Perfect Excuse" vs. Real Boundaries Janine asks whether Shannon had opportunities to say no to things she wanted to decline. They discuss when it's appropriate to use an explanation (like upcoming surgery) versus letting no stand alone.
[03:09] Miss Manners and the Full Sentence No Janine shares wisdom from reading Miss Manners cover to cover after college: you never have to give a reason to decline an invitation. This revelation has guided her boundary-setting for decades.
[05:17] Do More of What You Want, Less of What You Don't Janine explains her top goal for the past couple of years and how it's made saying no much easier. She stopped doing volunteer commitments and simply states that without lengthy explanations.
[05:46] Why Over-Explaining Weakens Your No Shannon and Janine discuss how giving long, detailed reasons for declining can make it seem less true—and opens the door for people to argue with you or find loopholes in your excuse.
[08:14] The "Hell Yes or No" Test for Setting Boundaries The hosts explore the trap of defaulting to yes when something feels like a maybe. Key insight: if it's not a "hell yes," it's a no.
[09:25] How Priorities Become Clearer With Age Janine reflects on how getting older has made her priorities crystal clear, making it much easier to discern what deserves a yes and what needs a no.
[10:13] The Kind, Thoughtful No: Setting Boundaries Without Being Rude Shannon emphasizes that your no can be kind and thoughtful—it doesn't have to be rude or unkind. You can decline sincerely and regretfully while still being firm.
[11:27] Saying No to Things You Want to Do Shannon shares the challenge of saying no to things she genuinely wanted to do, including skipping the final sessions of a three-day conference because she was exhausted and had to fly out early the next morning.
[12:42] When You Have to Badger Yourself: A Boundary Red Flag Shannon describes trying to hype herself up to go back to the conference in a "mean way"—and realizing that needing to badger yourself is a big clue that you should say no.
[13:30] Janine's IKEA Meeting Story: Letting Go of Expectations Janine shares how she let go of the expectation to attend her NAPO chapter meeting at IKEA when the timing was too tight. The relief she felt after saying no confirmed it was the right choice.
[14:28] The Relief Test: Your Body Knows the Right Answer Both hosts discuss how the sense of relief after saying no is a good clue that you made the right decision about your boundaries.
[15:19] Asking Too Much of Yourself: Recognizing Your Limits Janine gently points out that Shannon was asking a lot of herself to attend all three days of the conference, especially with an early flight the next morning.
[16:46] The Push and Pull of Conferences and Events Shannon reflects on how conferences and group events (family reunions, weddings) can be fraught with the tension between wanting to do everything and having real limitations on energy and time.
[17:46] Saying No to Volunteering: When Good Things Don't Fit Anymore Shannon shares the difficult decision to step away from volunteering at the pediatric intensive care unit after her first shoulder surgery—and why she chose not to return even after recovery.
[19:42] Your No Opens Opportunities for Others Janine reminds listeners that saying no or stopping something can open opportunities for someone else to step in and enjoy that role or responsibility.
[21:08] Something's Gotta Give: The Real Cost of Not Setting Boundaries Shannon explains that if you don't say no when you lack bandwidth, something will give—whether it's oversleeping (like she did the morning of her 4 a.m. wake-up call) or burning out entirely.
[23:53] Normalizing Boundaries: It's Better for Everyone Shannon emphasizes the importance of normalizing boundaries and recognizing that people can't do everything—and that's okay. It's better for everyone when we're honest about our limits.
[24:13] Know Your Priorities: Your Compass for Saying No Janine wraps up by encouraging listeners to be clear about what's important to them and navigate by that compass—it never lets you down.
10 Key Takeaways: Your Guide to Saying No Without Guilt
✅ No is a complete sentence. You don't owe anyone a lengthy explanation for declining an invitation or request. A simple "No, thank you" or "I can't" is enough when setting boundaries.
✅ Over-explaining weakens your no. The more details you add, the more it can seem like you're spinning a story—and it gives people room to argue or find loopholes.
✅ If it's not a "hell yes," it's a no. Don't default to yes when something feels like a maybe. Protect your time and energy for what truly matters by setting clear boundaries.
✅ Your no can be kind and thoughtful. Setting boundaries doesn't have to be rude. You can say no sincerely, regretfully, and firmly all at once.
✅ The relief test works. If you feel a sense of relief after saying no, that's confirmation you made the right choice about your boundaries.
✅ If you have to badger yourself, that's a clue. When you're trying to hype yourself up in a mean way to do something, listen to that signal—it's probably time to say no.
✅ Know your priorities. When you're clear about what's important to you, it becomes much easier to discern what deserves a yes and what needs a no. This clarity makes setting boundaries natural.
✅ Your no opens doors for others. Saying no or stepping away from a commitment can create opportunities for someone else to step in and thrive.
✅ Something's gotta give. If you don't say no when you're stretched too thin, your body or schedule will force the issue—often in less-than-ideal ways.
✅ Boundaries are better for everyone. Normalizing limits and recognizing that people can't do everything helps create healthier, more honest relationships and reduces guilt around saying no.
The Bottom Line on Setting Boundaries
Saying no isn't selfish—it's essential self-care. When you're clear about your priorities and honest about your limits, saying no becomes an act of respect for your own bandwidth. You don't need to over-explain, justify, or apologize for setting boundaries.
A simple, kind no protects your time, energy, and ability to show up well for what truly matters. And when you feel that sense of relief after declining? That's confirmation you made the right call. Learning to say no without guilt is a skill that gets easier with practice.
Try This: Your Action Step for Setting Boundaries
Practice the simple no. This week, try declining one low-stakes invitation or request without offering a detailed explanation. Notice how it feels—and whether the relief that follows confirms it was the right choice. Start small with saying no, and build your boundary-setting confidence.
- YouTube link - If you'd like to watch the conversation, click here!
Connect With Us: Share Your Boundary-Setting Stories
We'd love to hear from you! Do you struggle with saying no without guilt? How do you set boundaries in your life? Let us know:
- Leave us a voicemail: 413-424-GTGE (4843)
- Comment on social media: @gettingtogoodenough on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube
- Email: gettingtogoodenough@gmail.com
Transcript
Hey, there. Welcome to getting to Good Enough. I'm Shannon Wilkinson.
Janine Adams:And I'm Janine Adams. We're here for practical and fun conversations about living with more ease and way less stress.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yep. We're all about embracing progress over perfection. So grab a tasty beverage and let's get started. Hey, Janine. Hey, Shannon.
Janine Adams:How you doing?
Shannon Wilkinson:I'm doing pretty well this morning. How are you?
Janine Adams:I'm doing just fine. Can't complain, really. So that's good.
Shannon Wilkinson:Are you sure?
Janine Adams:Well, there's always something, but yes, I'm sure.
Shannon Wilkinson:I'm not going to complain, so I won't complain. Not I can't complain.
Janine Adams:Right.
Shannon Wilkinson:That's funny.
As you know, it's been a little bit of a complicated period for me, you know, starting this podcast, which is, you know, sort of a new amount of work, which I'm loving, but, you know, just sort of adding into this stuff.
And I'm having shoulder surgery in a week, so I'm preparing to be on the couch for two weeks and then one armed for, you know, another month after that. And. And then a bunch of other things happened. My nephew's wedding.
I went to Visit my beloved 96 year old aunt, which I feel like I have to do as often as possible.
I had a conference to go to, and so it's made it really complicated the last few weeks, trying to get everything done I need to get done before surgery day. And I've had to say no to a lot of stuff that I didn't really want to say no to, but felt like I had to?
Janine Adams:Yeah, that's. That's tough. Did you have the opportunity to say no to stuff that you did want to say no to and felt like, oh, good, I have a perfect excuse.
Shannon Wilkinson:No, I wish there would have been some of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Janine Adams:And so when you said no, was it a simple no or was it a well, I'm having surgery wish I could kind of know?
Shannon Wilkinson:Well, it sort of depended on the situation.
I've been trying to get better at letting no be a full sentence and not feeling compelled to give long, complicated answers to people that they don't care about. Although I have used the upcoming surgery as a little bit of a lever, too, to help people understand why I'm saying no.
Janine Adams:Yeah, yeah.
I remember, gosh, when I was right out of college, I read Miss Manners Guide to Can't remember the full title, but Miss Manners had that big, thick book. And I read.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, because like, you read it like a book, like, cover to cover or like, you just Periodically would pick it up and.
Janine Adams:No, no. I read it cover to cover, front to back. Yeah. And I learned a few things.
I love that because, you know, I was brought up in a barn, so I needed to learn some things. I was not. I had a very civilized home, but we weren't big on rules of manners.
And so one of the things that I took with me all these years later is that you never have to give a reason to decline an invitation. Just if somebody says, would you like to come to dinner on two weeks from Friday? You can say, oh, no, thanks, or, no, I can't. And that's all.
And that was very freeing to me. So in that sense, no is. Can really be.
Shannon Wilkinson:So you've had that on board for quite some time. That's amazing.
Janine Adams:Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Oh, my gosh. I wish I would have known that.
Janine Adams:Oh, shoot. Sorry, Shannon. I should have shared that with you 25 years ago when we met. Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Welcome to St. Louis. No is a full sentence.
Janine Adams:Right. That's funny.
But I, you know, I have had as my top goal, as you know, I like to set goals every year and has my top goal for at least the last two years, I think longer to do more things I want to do and fewer things I don't want to do. And that goal has led me really well into saying no.
And I just go right back to it when I'm not sure about something, and if I don't want to do it, I just say no. And, you know, I had a lot going on, so people understood. I didn't usually.
But I didn't usually say, oh, well, my husband just had a transplant and I'm really busy. But sometimes I'll say I stopped doing volunteer commitments.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah.
Janine Adams:Leave it at that. Fairly often, actually.
Shannon Wilkinson:I love that. And it is. It's so. So simple. And it's sort of funny on. On the receiving side of.
Can sometimes feel like if someone gives you a whole, you know, long reason why they can't do something, that it seems less true somehow. Like.
Janine Adams:Right. Like they're spinning a story. Well, they always say they. That if you want to lie, well, make it really specific, make it really detailed.
I've read that.
Shannon Wilkinson:Well, sort of.
Janine Adams:Well, it's.
Shannon Wilkinson:Whatever you have to remember.
Janine Adams:Well, yeah, that's true. But like the. The. In the books, the. The bad. The bad guys who are liars. Oh, yeah. They. They make it specific.
Or the good guys who are detectives will say, oh, that was so specific. He must be lying and live a rich fantasy life.
Shannon Wilkinson:You do. I don't know what any of that has to do with anything.
Janine Adams:I know. Yeah, that's a good point.
Shannon Wilkinson:Well, yeah, but to the original point that, like the, the. The more you kind of add into the story, the more as the receiver can feel like this seems like a whole long complicated story to say no.
Like, it almost makes me feel like if someone were doing that, that there were wiggle room and that I could maybe convince them otherwise.
Janine Adams:Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Like if it's not just no. And that's another good point is if you just say no, there's nothing anyone can argue with you about.
They can't say, well, yes, but if you say, oh, no, I can't because I'm really busy, then they'd be like, oh, really? How busy are you? Like, are you sure you don't have time to, you know, this is not going to take much time or, you know, whatever your excuse is.
Janine Adams:Yeah. Or I can't come because my friend's eating from out of town. Well, your friend can come or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
It makes me realize that probably because of my short, I've gotten so good at it. I guess nobody argues with me.
Shannon Wilkinson:I mean, like, you just say no. No, thank you.
Janine Adams:Thank you. It's true. It works. But maybe we should talk a moment about why it's important to say no.
Like, I mean, it's also great to say yes to things that are important to you, but if you. But being able to evaluate whether something is a yes or a no and then going with the no if it is, is a skill to have.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, and that's a good point, because I think people say yes to things that are maybes. Like, if something feels like a maybe, they default to saying yes.
And I think it's much more beneficial if something's a maybe, it's a no to recognize it's a no.
Janine Adams:Right. If it's not a yes, it's a no.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah. If it's not a will this make it explicit? If it's not a hell yes, it's enough.
Janine Adams:I don't think that's too explicit. I don't know.
Shannon Wilkinson:I don't know what the rules are. I. I just try not to cross them. But I think that's such a.
A valuable thing to remember and that we don't have unlimited time, we don't have unlimited resources, we don't have unlimited energy. And so you're making choices and you need to make the choices that work for you.
You have to choose what's important to you, not what's important to other people.
Janine Adams:Yeah, I agree. And I feel like this is something that's come for me anyway with age. Priorities are so much more clear now than they were when I was younger.
I don't know why, but when you're in touch with what's important to you, then it becomes really easy to discern that yes and that no. And I think maybe what part of what we're trying to do today is encourage people to listen to that no and feel okay about saying no and saying no.
It doesn't have to be a long explanation as you, as we were discussing, but also it doesn't have to be rude or unkind. It can be sincerely regretful, but you just can stage it in such a way that it is. There's no arguments and that's that.
Shannon Wilkinson:Right? Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Is that your no can, can be a kind no, a thoughtful no.
Janine Adams:Yes. Yeah. Because it's true that we, like you said at the beginning, there are lots of things you've had to say no to recently.
And that's because of your priorities, obviously your health and survival in the next couple of years, couple months is, is your priority in your emotional survival as well as physical.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it, it does, it feels hard to say no to things that you really do want to do.
I was at that conference and it was a three day conference and, and it was here in Portland.
And so that sort of made it a little more complicated because had I gone away somewhere, I wouldn't have taken all of my home responsibilities with me. And so I was trying to do stuff at home before I went to the conference.
I was coming home at lunch and taking care of stuff, going back and then coming home afterwards and doing stuff.
And, and on the last day I came home at lunch and just felt exhausted and knew I had to get up at 4 o' clock in the morning, the next morning to get on a plane to go to Fresno. And so I just laid down for a nap and then slept for two hours.
And I, I could have gone back and caught, you know, the tail end of the conference, but I just decided to say no and let that be okay. Took a little discussion with myself. Like I was really trying to hype myself up and, and get myself back there in a little bit of a mean way.
Janine Adams:Mean to yourself?
Shannon Wilkinson:And then I was like, oh, mean to myself. And then I was like, wait a minute, if I have to like badger myself to go back, that's a big clue.
Janine Adams:Yeah. Yeah. Good for you for listening to that clue.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah. And I, you know, I wish I would have been there for the last few sessions, but. And to say goodbye to a lot of really great people that I met.
And then I thought, oh, well, I. Like, I don't have a choice. I mean, I have a choice, but I have to take care of myself first.
Janine Adams:Right. Yeah. Your priorities were clear, and that's really great. I had a similar experience last month, August, when I was traveling, and there was the.
My chapter of the national association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals. NAPO was how they changed their name.
Shannon Wilkinson:So it was so much easier before the productivity part got in.
Janine Adams:Exactly. Yes. And our chapter meeting was at ikea, tour of ikea, lunch afterward.
And that's fun, but I was flying in that morning and it was gonna be really tight for me to get there. And at some point while I was away, I thought, you know what?
I'm just gonna send my regrets and just not just gonna let go of the expectation that I gonna make it. And once I did that, I felt such a sense of relief. I didn't realize how much it was weighing on me, the tension around, am I gonna get there in time?
Am I gonna get to the meeting in time? And once I let it go, I'm.
Shannon Wilkinson:Like, oh, wow, okay.
Janine Adams:I feel lighter. So sometimes no is really beneficial. And oftentimes you feel it.
Once you've made the decision to say no and you say no, or to yourself or others, then you get that relief, which is always a good clue. It's a good choice.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah. And sometimes you can practice that, sort of run yourself through the scenario of what would it be like if I said no?
Although, depending on how your brain works, that might just stir up the things that you would feel bad or regret if you didn't do it.
Janine Adams:Oh.
Shannon Wilkinson:But it is really nice when you get that feeling of relief and confirmation, like, oh, I just made the right decision. Yeah.
Janine Adams:You must have been so tired after two and a half days of a conference and all the other things, and then knowing you had to get up really early the next morning. I mean, that seems like that was. You were asking a lot of yourself to go to all three days in the first place. Maybe.
Shannon Wilkinson:Absolutely. 100% asking too much of myself. Yeah.
Janine Adams:Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson: here they're gonna hold it in:They probably made the announcement at the last thing that I Probably did go online, find out, and then. But I sort of gave myself permission that, you know, if. If it was too much, then I would just stay home. Like, I even gave my.
Myself permission to not go at all. But I really wanted to go. There were things I wanted to learn, There were people I wanted to meet and. Was great.
You know, it was one of those things where you go and it's very.
I don't know, it just sort of jazzed me up, and I got excited, and I met all these really amazing people, and every time I thought, like, oh, I. I need to just go home. I need to skip, you know, this next session or whatever, I'd go, and then it'd be, like, really amazing.
And then that kept feeding me into going more to the point of exhaustion. To the point of exhaustion? Yeah.
Janine Adams:Yeah. Until your body said, no, you can't do this anymore. I feel like conferences are so. Can be so fraught. Right? There's such a push and pull.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Any event where, you know, it's a group of people, I'm thinking like a family reunion or, you know, I was at this family wedding, and. And.
And it's hard when there's all this stuff you want to do, and you have real limitations. You know, they may not be tight limitations, but you have limitations on your energy and time and all of that.
I think that's probably a whole other episode that we need to explore.
Janine Adams:Yeah, I think so, too. That could be. I think we probably have lots to say.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah.
Janine Adams:Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Having attended a lot of conferences on our own and together. That's right.
Janine Adams:Exactly. Aren't we lucky?
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah.
Janine Adams:Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:But it. I think I'm just thinking back to some of the things that I've said no to that were hard to say no to.
I used to volunteer for the pediatric intensive care unit of Doernbecher Children's Hospital here in Portland, and I did it for a year, and I really loved it. I mean, it felt like I was doing good work and. And like, I was.
It was a small difference, but for people who were probably going through one of the worst experiences of their lives, you know, I. Any small difference I could make, I thought was really worth doing, worthwhile.
But when I had my right shoulder surgery and I couldn't volunteer anymore, and it was hard to step away, and I sort of had this very Pollyanna idea that I would be able to go back after four weeks ago. I get my brace off in four weeks or five weeks or whatever, and then I'll go back to volunteering.
And it just took so long to rehab my shoulder before I'd be able to hold babies and make beds and do other people's laundry and stuff that I just wasn't able to go back for so long. And then I decided not to go back. And like, I still miss it, but I'm glad I didn't say yes just to have to stop doing it again.
Janine Adams:Right. Or promise that you would be back after four weeks and then have to say no.
Sometimes I think about how, and I think, think that volunteer gig you had was an in demand volunteer opportunity because people love holding babies and stuff. Am I right?
Shannon Wilkinson:My particular one wasn't because I was in the pediatric intensive care, not the neonatal intensive care. The neonatal is the. Is all baby holding all the time. That's the one where like, people are lined up out the door for that moment.
Janine Adams:Right, right.
Well, what I was thinking was that sometimes by saying no or, or stopping doing something, you're opening an opportunity for somebody else to absolutely do it. And that can be something good to remind yourself when. When you're saying no.
Shannon Wilkinson:I did have a coveted spot. My. My shift was a coveted shift. So that opened up for someone else.
Janine Adams:Yeah, someone's enjoying that now. Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, absolutely.
One way to remind yourself that saying no to something that you don't really have the bandwidth to do is better than saying yes to it is that something's got to give. And either, you know, you.
You're going to be exhausted and by the way, over sleep the morning that you're supposed to get up at 4am until 5:18, when you were supposed to be leaving to the airport at 5.
Janine Adams:Oh God. When you said 4am I'm gonna get up at 4am the next day, I almost said, yeah, that's what you thought, because I knew you had overslept.
I mean, that's. That was a rough morning.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah. Yeah, that was a rough morning. Luckily, I, as, you know, enjoy getting to the airport a good two hours early. And so I was there in plenty of time.
Yeah, like, it was, it was not a problem. It was a little stressful. Luckily, I have a very helpful husband who I was planning to drive myself and park and take the shuttle and.
And I just woke him up and said, can you drive me? I overslept. And he was like dressed and downstairs and ready to go in like a minute. I'm not kidding. It was. I was like, whoa.
Janine Adams:I would think you were exaggerating if I didn't know, Mike, but I can totally See, he's like gonna rise the occasion and also you. He's a happy morning person, if I recall.
Shannon Wilkinson:He is a happy morning person. He chit chatted the whole way to the airport.
Janine Adams:That's great. He's awesome.
Shannon Wilkinson:I know. And I'm less like, oh no, this is bad. And he's like. Because he attended one of the things that I had to say no to the night before.
So he was filling me in on all of the.
Janine Adams:Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, yeah, that's excellent.
I just talked to some, some friends recently and learned that the wife is a early to the airport person, the husband is a get there right before the plane leaves person. So they now take separate Ubers. Isn't that awesome?
Shannon Wilkinson:Oh, good for them.
Janine Adams:Uh huh. I thought that was a great solution.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah.
Janine Adams:Everybody wins. Yep.
Shannon Wilkinson:Right? Oh, that would stress me out. I would take a separate Uber.
Janine Adams:Yeah. And then I'd be worried at the airport for when's it going to get here? But at least I'd be on the plane.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah.
Janine Adams:Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson:Well, I like where I'm going. Yeah.
So it's just, I think the more we sort of normalize having boundaries and recognizing that people can't do everything they want to do, they can't do everything you want them to do and that's okay. Like it's better for all of us.
Janine Adams:Exactly. Yeah. No is a complete sentence on both sides of the the equation, like receive that well, give that easily.
Then know knowing your priorities so that you're not in agonizing over the decision and whether or not to say no. It can be right.
Shannon Wilkinson:Right? Yeah. Like you said earlier, just being clear about what's important to you and navigating by that, it, it never lets me down.
Janine Adams:That's true.
Shannon Wilkinson:So we would love to hear from you, our listeners and watchers. Do you have difficulty saying no? Do you feel comfortable about your boundaries?
You can let us know on Facebook, Instagram or YouTube @gettingtogoodenough. You can send us an email at gettingtogoodenough.com mail. No getting to goodenoughmail.com. that's right.
Janine Adams:That's right. Yeah.
Shannon Wilkinson: -GTGE: Janine Adams:I never even thought about that.
Shannon Wilkinson:Yeah, I know, that's so easy. Just pick up your phone and text us. I mean it's unmonitored. We only check it once a week. But.
Janine Adams:Send a text. We may or may not see it, but please send it.
Shannon Wilkinson:Thanks for joining us on Getting to Good Enough. We hope you heard something that makes your life just a little bit easier.
If you did, leave us a review or share this with someone who's looking for their own version of Good Enough.
Janine Adams:Thanks for listening. See you soon.
Shannon Wilkinson:Can you not hear me?
Janine Adams:I stopped being able to hear you.
Shannon Wilkinson:Oh, that's so weird. What? At what point?
Janine Adams:There was a whole stretch there where I couldn't hear you before, but I was playing along. I mean, because we know each other really well. Spiking. Yeah, but.
Shannon Wilkinson:And I noticed from the thumbnails that it looks like I'm lecturing to you a lot anyway, so they all look like you're sitting there with a smile on your face and I'm talking.
Janine Adams:That's funny.
